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400

Chairman SENSENBRENNER. The time of the gentlewoman has expired.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. I thank the Chairman for his indulgence. I yield back.

Chairman SENSENBRENNER. The question is on the amendment offered by the gentleman from North Carolina, Mr. Watt. Those in favor will say aye? Opposed, no? The noes appear to have it.

Mr. WATT. Mr. Chairman, I ask for a recorded vote.

Chairman SENSENBRENNER. A recorded vote will be ordered. Those in favor of the Watt amendment will, as your names are called, answer aye, those opposed, no, and the clerk will call the roll.

Mr. WATT. Mr. Chairman, do we have a quorum, a voting quorum on an amendment?

Chairman SENSENBRENNER. We have a working quorum, which is 14.

Mr. WATT. Is that enough to vote on an amendment? I don't know. I'm not——

Chairman SENSENBRENNER. Yes. A working quorum is necessary to debate and vote on amendments. A reporting quorum, which is 21, is necessary to report the bill.

The clerk will call the roll. The question is on the Watt amendment.

The CLERK. Mr. Hyde?

[No response.]

The CLERK. Mr. Coble?

Mr. COBLE. No.

The CLERK. Mr. Coble, no. Mr. Smith?

Mr. SMITH OF TEXAS. No.

The CLERK. Mr. Smith, no. Mr. Gallegly?

Mr. GALLEGLY. No.

The CLERK. Mr. Gallegly, no. Mr. Goodlatte?

[No response.]

The CLERK. Mr. Chabot?

Mr. CHABOT. No.

The CLERK. Mr. Chabot, no. Mr. Lungren?

Mr. LUNGREN. No.

The CLERK. Mr. Lungren, no. Mr. Jenkins?

Mr. JENKINS. No.

The CLERK. Mr. Jenkins, no. Mr. Cannon?

Mr. CANNON. No.

The CLERK. Mr. Cannon, no. Mr. Bachus?

[No response.]

The CLERK. Mr. Inglis?

[No response.]

The CLERK. Mr. Hostettler?

Mr. HOSTETTLER. No.

The CLERK. Mr. Hostettler, no. Mr. Green?

[No response.]

The CLERK. Mr. Keller?

[No response.]

The CLERK. Mr. Issa?

Mr. ISSA. No.

The CLERK. Mr. Issa, no. Mr. Flake?

[No response.]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


401

The CLERK. Mr. Pence?

[No response.]

The CLERK. Mr. Forbes?

[No response.]

The CLERK. Mr. King?

Mr. KING. No.

The CLERK. Mr. King, no. Mr. Feeney?

Mr. FEENEY. No.

The CLERK. Mr. Feeney, no. Mr. Franks?

Mr. FRANKS. No.

The CLERK. Mr. Franks, no. Mr. Gohmert?

Mr. GOHMERT. No.

The CLERK. Mr. Gohmert, no. Mr. Conyers?

Mr. CONYERS. Aye.

The CLERK. Mr. Conyers, aye. Mr. Berman?

[No response.]

The CLERK. Mr. Boucher?

[No response.]

The CLERK. Mr. Nadler?

Mr. NADLER. Aye.

The CLERK. Mr. Nadler, aye. Mr. Scott?

Mr. SCOTT. Aye.

The CLERK. Mr. Scott, aye. Mr. Watt?

Mr. WATT. Aye.

The CLERK. Mr. Watt, aye. Ms. Lofgren?

[No response.]

The CLERK. Ms. Jackson Lee?

Ms. JACKSON LEE. Aye.

The CLERK. Ms. Jackson Lee, aye. Ms. Waters?

[No response.]

The CLERK. Mr. Meehan?

Mr. MEEHAN. Aye.

The CLERK. Mr. Meehan, aye. Mr. Delahunt?

Mr. DELAHUNT. Aye.

The CLERK. Mr. Delahunt, aye. Mr. Wexler?

[No response.]

The CLERK. Mr. Weiner?

[No response.]

The CLERK. Mr. Schiff?

Mr. SCHIFF. Aye.

The CLERK. Mr. Schiff, aye. Ms. Sanchez?

Ms. SANCHEZ. Aye.

The CLERK. Ms. Sanchez, aye. Mr. Smith?

[No response.]

The CLERK. Mr. Van Hollen?

[No response.]

The CLERK. Mr. Chairman?

Chairman SENSENBRENNER. No.

The CLERK. Mr. Chairman, no.

Chairman SENSENBRENNER. Are there Members who wish to cast or change their vote? The gentleman from Wisconsin, Mr. Green.

Mr. GREEN. No.

The CLERK. Mr. Green, no.

Chairman SENSENBRENNER. Further Members who wish to cast or change their vote? If not, the clerk will report.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


402

The CLERK. Mr. Chairman, there are 9 ayes and 15 noes.

Chairman SENSENBRENNER. And the amendment is not agreed to.

Are there further amendments?

Mr. WATT. Mr. Chairman?

Chairman SENSENBRENNER. The gentleman from North Carolina, Mr. Watt.

 

 


Mr. WATT. Mr. Chairman, I have an amendment at the desk.

Chairman SENSENBRENNER. The clerk will report the amendment.

Mr. WATT. Watt 02.

Chairman SENSENBRENNER. The clerk will report the amendment.

The CLERK. Amendment to S. 256, offered by Mr. Watt——

Mr. WATT. I ask unanimous consent the amendment be considered as read.

Chairman SENSENBRENNER. The gentleman will hold off until the amendment is at least distributed to some Members.

The CLERK. On page 10——

Chairman SENSENBRENNER. Without objection, the amendment is considered as read.

[The amendment follows:]

 

 

 

 

Chairman SENSENBRENNER. And the gentleman is recognized for 5 minutes.

Mr. WATT. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And my good friend from Utah couldn't have provided a more appropriate segue into this amendment than to remind us that most people are poor because they are young and uneducated. And this amendment goes directly to that point.

Under the current version of this bill, school expenses for minor children up to $1,500 per child annually are allowable as expenses under the means test. My amendment expands——

Chairman SENSENBRENNER. The gentleman will suspend. We have a problem with your microphone.

Mr. WATT. That is probably a blessing, considered a blessing by most people.

Chairman SENSENBRENNER. Well, we do have the court reporter to record your comments for posterity.

[Pause.]

Mr. WATT. Are we okay? Testing. "O, say can you see'—

 

 

 

 


403

[Laughter.]

Chairman SENSENBRENNER. I think the gentleman from North Carolina is auditioning for a free ticket to the Nationals to sing the National Anthem there.

Mr. WATT. I was trying to see if you all would stand.

Chairman SENSENBRENNER. The gentleman is recognized.

[Laughter.]

Mr. WATT. Trying to get people to stand, Mr. Chairman. That's all.

I'm not sure where you all ceased to hear me, but I wanted to thank my friend from Utah for setting the stage for this amendment by reminding us that most people are poor because they are young and uneducated. The current version of the bill allows up to $1,500 per child for school expenses under the means test. However, most college-age students remain dependent on their parents and rely upon parental support to attend college or other postsecondary institutions. A college degree is a valuable investment? I think Mister—my good friend from Utah would agree with that, and often is the key for lower-income Americans to break the cycle of poverty.

Unfortunately, the average cost of a year's tuition, room and board, and fees at a private college last year was $22,541. The average cost of a year's tuition, room and board, and fees at a public university last year was $8,470. That information, by the way, comes from the College Board, not from me. I didn't make it up. For 2004-2005 school year, tuition fees in 4-year public universities soared at 11 percent, while at private universities they rose 6 percent, according to the College Board. And if I can just give you a personal experience, when my kids went to college, the increase in their tuition from 1 year to the next was more than I paid per year to go to the State university that I went to. So that gives you some appreciation that I have some personal appreciation for this.

So all we're doing is trying to get you all to allow us to help people break this cycle of poverty that my good friend from Utah referred to that keeps so many people poor, and not visit the sins of parents—if you think that incurring debt and going into bankruptcy is a sin, don't visit the sins of the parents on the children, because then you are punishing other folks who—they didn't incur these debts.

So, please, consider this amendment and I ask for your support and yield back. Sorry I serenaded you.

Chairman SENSENBRENNER. The gentleman from Utah.

Mr. CANNON. Thank you. I enjoyed——

Chairman SENSENBRENNER. He does not have to sing, by the way.

Mr. CANNON. I enjoyed the music, but Mel does this a lot better than I do so I'm not going to sing. Thank you.

I appreciate what the gentleman is saying. College costs have gone up. Just two points.

One is that this eliminates any kind of cap—there's a $1,500 cap in the current bill, and it's for essentially adults. Now, I grant you that 18-year-olds are young people, but, again, I hope that my children have a rough experience with the world as they get to be 18 and beyond so that they realize that there's nothing out there to protect them other than their own wit and capabilities and that

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


404

Government, I think, is not a very good protector. And so I would urge people to vote against this amendment. This is a finely crafted bill. I think what we have in the bill is really a very appropriate number, and while I'd like to be able to solve all the problems of everyone in the world of getting access to education, we've done much with Pell grants and with loans and other support, and I think that the place to deal with that issue is not in this bill but in other aspects of what we're doing here in Congress generally.

So I would urge people to vote against this amendment and yield back the balance of my time.

Chairman SENSENBRENNER. The question is on the Watt amendment. Those in favor will say aye? Opposed, no? The noes appear to have it.

Mr. WATT. Mr. Chairman, I ask for a recorded vote.

Chairman SENSENBRENNER. A recorded vote will be ordered. Those in favor of the Watt amendment will, as your names are called, answer aye, those opposed, no, and the clerk will call the roll.

The CLERK. Mr. Hyde?

[No response.]

The CLERK. Mr. Coble?

[No response.]

The CLERK. Mr. Smith?

[No response.]

The CLERK. Mr. Gallegly?

Mr. GALLEGLY. No.

The CLERK. Mr. Gallegly, no. Mr. Goodlatte?

[No response.]

The CLERK. Mr. Chabot?

Mr. CHABOT. No.

The CLERK. Mr. Chabot, no. Mr. Lungren?

[No response.]

The CLERK. Mr. Jenkins?

Mr. JENKINS. No.

The CLERK. Mr. Jenkins, no. Mr. Cannon?

Mr. CANNON. No.

The CLERK. Mr. Cannon, no. Mr. Bachus?

Mr. BACHUS. No.

The CLERK. Mr. Bachus, no. Mr. Inglis?

[No response.]

The CLERK. Mr. Hostettler?

Mr. HOSTETTLER. No.

The CLERK. Mr. Hostettler, no. Mr. Green?

[No response.]

The CLERK. Mr. Keller?

[No response.]

The CLERK. Mr. Issa?

Mr. ISSA. No.

The CLERK. Mr. Issa, no. Mr. Flake?

[No response.]

The CLERK. Mr. Pence?

[No response.]

The CLERK. Mr. Forbes?

[No response.]

The CLERK. Mr. King?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


405

Mr. KING. No.

The CLERK. Mr. King, no. Mr. Feeney?

Mr. FEENEY. No.

The CLERK. Mr. Feeney, no. Mr. Franks?

Mr. FRANKS. No.

The CLERK. Mr. Franks, no. Mr. Gohmert?

Mr. GOHMERT. No.

The CLERK. Mr. Gohmert, no. Mr. Conyers?

Mr. CONYERS. Aye.

The CLERK. Mr. Conyers, aye. Mr. Berman?

[No response.]

The CLERK. Mr. Boucher?

Mr. BOUCHER. No.

The CLERK. Mr. Boucher, no. Mr. Nadler?

Mr. NADLER. Aye.

The CLERK. Mr. Nadler, aye. Mr. Scott?

Mr. SCOTT. Aye.

The CLERK. Mr. Scott, aye. Mr. Watt?

Mr. WATT. Aye.

The CLERK. Mr. Watt, aye. Ms. Lofgren?

[No response.]

The CLERK. Ms. Jackson Lee?

Ms. JACKSON LEE. Aye.

The CLERK. Ms. Jackson Lee, aye. Ms. Waters?

[No response.]

The CLERK. Mr. Meehan?

Mr. MEEHAN. Aye.

The CLERK. Mr. Meehan, aye. Mr. Delahunt?

Mr. DELAHUNT. Aye.

The CLERK. Mr. Delahunt, aye. Mr. Wexler?

[No response.]

The CLERK. Mr. Weiner?

Mr. WEINER. Aye.

The CLERK. Mr. Weiner, aye. Mr. Schiff?

Mr. SCHIFF. Aye.

The CLERK. Mr. Schiff, aye. Ms. Sanchez?

Ms. SANCHEZ. Aye.

The CLERK. Ms. Sanchez, aye. Mr. Smith?

[No response.]

The CLERK. Mr. Van Hollen?

[No response.]

The CLERK. Mr. Chairman?

Chairman SENSENBRENNER. No.

The CLERK. Mr. Chairman, no.

Chairman SENSENBRENNER. Members who wish to cast or change their votes? The gentleman from North Carolina, Mr. Coble.

Mr. COBLE. No.

The CLERK. Mr. Coble, no.

Chairman SENSENBRENNER. The gentleman from Florida, Mr. Keller.

Mr. KELLER. No.

The CLERK. Mr. Keller, no.

Chairman SENSENBRENNER. The gentleman from Wisconsin, Mr. Green.

Mr. GREEN. No.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


406

The CLERK. Mr. Green, no.

Chairman SENSENBRENNER. The gentleman from California, Mr. Lungren.

Mr. LUNGREN. No.

The CLERK. Mr. Lungren, no.

Chairman SENSENBRENNER. Further Members who wish to cast or change their vote? If not, the clerk will report.

The CLERK. Mr. Chairman, there are 10 ayes and 17 noes.

Chairman SENSENBRENNER. And the amendment is not agreed to.

Are there further amendments?

Mr. WATT. Mr. Chairman, may I be recognized for a unanimous consent request?

Chairman SENSENBRENNER. The gentleman from North Carolina, for what purpose do you seek recognition?

Mr. WATT. To ask unanimous consent to insert in the record at this point a copy of a report entitled "Robbing Perkins to Pay Pell: The Bush College Aid Proposal," and a letter from Ranking Member Obey and Ranking Member George Miller talking about the results of that report.

Chairman SENSENBRENNER. Without objection, the material referred to by the gentleman from North Carolina will be included in the record.

[The material referred to follows:]


 

 

 

 


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